Hal Coopersmith: Welcome to the New York Launch Pod, the New York Press Club award-winning podcast highlighting the most interesting new startups, businesses and openings in the New York City area. I’m your host and New York attorney Hal Coopersmith and in this episode we talk to Laura Schubert and Lillian Tung, Co-Founders of Fur. At this point we’re going to bring on our producer and paralegal at Coopersmith and Coopersmith, Andrew Kane. Andrew you were surprised when we first interviewed Fur, they’re a pubic hair and body care products company and you though that was really niche but Fur’s had a lot of growth in their business since we first spoke to them.
Andrew Kane: That’s right. Since Fur stepped onto the New York Launch Pod a year ago they’ve doubled their sales and tripled their retail presence while normalizing the conversation around body hair and body hair grooming.
Laura Schubert: Definitely there’s a conversation around pubic but there’s also a conversation just around body care, I think the consumer changes and we definitely have different ways we can talk to the different consumers so that’s changed but I also think people are just more comfortable.
NY Launch Pod: In this episode we revisit that conversation about pubic and body hair and talk to Laura and Lillian about the growth of their company, how they continue to expand their market reach, and all their brand new products in our series we call How You Doin’?
NY Launch Pod: So the last time you were here, we talked about the conversation around pubic hair and pubic hair grooming. What is the state of the pubic hair conversation now?
Laura Schubert: Even since we were on the New York Launch Pod a year ago, the conversation on pubic hair has become a lot more open. There’s definitely still a taboo and a stigma around pubic hair. But we’ve launched an Alta, we’ve expanded in all Alta and just in general, I find that when I meet people, I tell them that I have a pubic hair and skincare company and honestly, people don’t bat an eyelash anymore. So that’s really been a big change.
Lillian Tung: I mean, I’d say on top of that, it’s not that they don’t bat an eyelash. They sometimes say, “Oh, we’ve heard of Fur, we’ve heard of you”. And that’s definitely changed because not only are they not afraid, they’re actually very excited to be talking about pubic hair with us.
NY Launch Pod: Well, I’m glad you came back on and you’re saying that because I feel something similar, and I don’t know if I’m biased because we did the interview or I’m following you on social media, but has there been anything that you think has changed and made people more open? Because we certainly talked a lot about how people were resistant the last time.
Lillian Tung: It’s not like there’s one, you know, huge event. I think that did it. I think it’s a bunch of little things that have just come together over time, right? Like this whole movement towards body positivity. Right? That’s definitely something that’s encouraged men and women to talk more openly about how they view themselves. Same thing with wellness. Of course. There’s definitely like the Me Too movement and gender equality. So all of those and so many other little things including, you know, for launching in 2016 and really putting our stake in the ground and saying, we are here to talk about pubic hair and pubic hair care. All those things came together to move the conversation to where it is today.
NY Launch Pod: And it seems like there’s been more media and obviously the New York Launch Pod helped legitimize you, but since then you were on Hustle, which is on Vice, a lot of other publications. What’s been the media reaction to your story now as opposed to what it’s been in the past?
Laura Schubert: Well, when we launched, there were definitely certain publications that said they would never write about pubic hair and they have all at this point written about us. So that’s been definitely just a huge change. Again, there’s just been a different level of acceptance and we definitely found that, you know, we launched our most recent product Bathdrops that, you know, again press. They knew us, we had a relationship with them, but it’s just there just wasn’t a feeling anymore that they could not write about us.
NY Launch Pod: And in terms of the stores, I want to play this quote for you.
NY Launch Pod: And now you’re in a lot more stores. How has that been?
Laura Schubert: That’s actually a pretty interesting question because I’ve been thinking a lot about our sales strategy in 2020 and I do feel like in a way the question has become much less how do we get into stores and more which stores did we get into and how, and how do we maintain and grow those relationships. So I, that is a big difference in the business.
NY Launch Pod: So how are you thinking you’re going to grow those relationships?
Laura Schubert: Well, I mean that’s the thing. It’s what levers do you pull, right? There is sort of, there’s definitely digital levers so we can do more digital advertising. We can also hire field sales. We can go to conferences. So it’s sort of, it’s, yeah, I think we’re definitely at a different level, it’s high class problems I would say with our retailers.
NY Launch Pod: High class problems. What’s the growth been?
Lillian Tung: Oh, it continues to be exponential across..
NY Launch Pod: Let’s get a hard number there.
Lillian Tung: Over three times.
NY Launch Pod: Over three times in the past year?
Lillian Tung: Yes, versus a year ago.
NY Launch Pod: So how are you managing all that growth?
Lillian Tung: Thankfully we have an amazing team. I mean that’s first and foremost answer number one, answer number one, which is compared to just a year ago, we had one full time employee and a couple interns. Now we have seven employees full time, me and Laura as well and two interns. So the team, I mean has been really core and key to the growth and keeping everything moving and keeping the passion going because they are so passionate about what we do as well. You know, it’s not just me and Laura driving the mission forward anymore.
NY Launch Pod: So the team is critical but you also have an inventory distribution. How are you managing all of that?
Laura Schubert: I’m still managing our inventory because that’s pretty, that’s pretty important. Also just from a working capital perspective to have a very close handle on that. And so I’d say that’s actually sort of key too is that I think Lillian has the closest handle on the marketing budget and I have the closest handle on working capital inventory. And so those are definitely things that responsibilities that I feel we will keep between ourselves for a long time.
Lillian Tung: I mean those are just so important to the growth and then the sustainability of the company. One thing, I mean we mentioned it last time, we are still self-funded and again that’s why every dollar whether it’s going to go into inventory or marketing is a dollar that we have a conversation me and Laura about because that has to be very closely managed in order to make sure we’re like, you know, still growing and growing profitably.
NY Launch Pod: Well being self-funded is certainly part of the story. And then the last time you were here you talked about how once Emma Watson had endorsed the product, you ran out of inventory. So Laura, you’re in charge of the inventory, you know obviously there was three times the growth, the working capital. Are there concerns about running out of inventory? I mean for businesses that are on that channel and are self funded, how are you specifically more able to manage that inventory?
Laura Schubert: Well, the the great news is that we actually have increasingly, I’d say better deals with our vendors now than we used to. So better deals, better relationships and we are working with only vendors who can support us as we grow. So that’s, I think that’s a key piece of the whole thing actually.
NY Launch Pod: And part of your growth story, in addition to increasing sales, you’re launching products, which you alluded to, how are you coming up with new products, you’ve developed some products and now there’s a proliferation, like I saw there’s a washcloth, how did that idea come to be?
Lillian Tung: So we get our ideas from a variety of sources, definitely what me and Laura like really want to see but also from talking to our customers. So we really love to talk to both our direct to consumer customer, right? So our end user, but we also love to talk to aestheticians about what they want to see for their clients. And that’s really how a lot of the most recent products came about. So specifically, you know, the silk scrub exfoliator that was born out of aestheticians, the on-the-go wipes, both the ingrown eliminator and the washcloth, you’d mentioned those came from our customers who wanted something that they could take with them when they went traveling. The last, the most recent launch Bathdrops was something that Laura and I really loved because we’re children of the nineties and we wanted something, we remembered them and we really loved the idea of bath time as a ritual. It works so well within the Fur brand experience. But the Bathdrops of the nineties were, you know, bad for you, full of artificial ingredients, they were made with animal products. So we’re like, okay, there’s a real opportunity to take that and make it a Fur experience. And so that one came from me and Laura. So really, you know, a variety of inspiration points.
Laura Schubert: And, and that being said, we’ve actually been working on that product for two years. So we were working on that product when we were here last year. It took us that long to do a global sourcing project to find a facility that could make vegan bath beads. And we’re the only manufacturer of those in the world.
NY Launch Pod: What about the candle?
Lillian Tung: That is a limited edition run done by our friends in a local Brooklyn studio. And it’s inspired again by your bath ritual and a lot of feedback from our customers who say, I love the way Fur Oil smells. It turns my entire bath experience into a spa. Like how can I have that as a more ongoing experience? And to us it’s holiday season, it’s cold. What’s better than that? Taking a bath and having a warm bathroom. That smells great. So it’s a limited edition run though. We have very few left.
NY Launch Pod: And part of your story is inventing this category and obviously the resistance that you had when you invented the category. What about now that you’ve paved the path about people maybe entering into your lane and which is a total different conversation than before. But now that there is more of a conversation around body hair and people are less uncomfortable about it, what about more of the bigger brands coming in?
Laura Schubert: Well there definitely is increased competition. We do have some direct competitors now, but we’ve also always said we haven’t created a category until we have competitors. So that’s actually step one to success. If no one’s following you, then you’re not really onto something. So we’re the first mover. We are the leaders in the space today and you know we will continue to be, but that also informs our distribution strategy and everything else.
NY Launch Pod: And so what is it like having competition now because you didn’t have it before?
Lillian Tung: I mean I can tell you media used to tell us, it’s really hard to write about you guys because there’s like some rule about, you know, you have to have like three data points or three companies to write about before you can make a story and they’re like, and there’s only you. And now if you look at recent press, I mean we’re definitely always up there with anyone else that comes into the space or you know, they reference us as the category creators in 2016 and look who are the new entrance. So again, it’s just validation for us, it’s actually been helpful. The voice the conversation has gotten larger, but we’re still up there in that conversation. And that’s really important. And it’s also interesting because there’s a nuance, there’s always a variety of options and ways to talk about pubic hair care.
Lillian Tung: And I think each brand that has come into the space has done it in a very unique way. Ours is really, you know, being a matter of fact about it, talking about it in a straightforward way. That’s non-gendered, right. So we talk about pubic hair. Both men and women have it, none of our products are specifically geared towards one or the other. And again, our demographic of our consumers reflects that. I think some other brands you know, aren’t necessarily like that. But that’s okay because they have a core consumer that’s different than ours, but it’s a larger conversation.
NY Launch Pod: Well, the last time you said it was 70% female and 30% male, is that still the case?
Lillian Tung: Yup.
NY Launch Pod: And in terms of now that you have more years under your belt, you talked about consumers coming back to you, do you have more data on that and how frequent consumers are coming back to you?
Lillian Tung: Yes. But that’s a little bit confidential. I can say our repeat purchase rate is really nice and loyalty is very high.
NY Launch Pod: And so the growth, obviously there are two ways of growing new customer acquisition and then your existing customer base. Your customer base is now growing and so you have more of an opportunity for repeat customers. But how has that growth been for new customers? And existing customers?
Lillian Tung: We highly value of course our repeat loyal customers and they are one of our biggest channels of acquisition just through word of mouth. That being said, much of our marketing dollars, because we’re a new company, it’s growing is spent on acquiring new customers because I mean not that we really can assess a market penetration because we’re such a small company, but like you know, the percentage of our actual market penetration right now is not nearly where we know we can be. So we have to get our brand in front of new people.
NY Launch Pod: And you’ve grown three times in the past year, 3x in the past year. How many stores are you in now versus a year ago?
Lillian Tung: That’s more than three X.
Laura Schubert: Well we’re definitely in over a thousand stores today. And I think it was several hundred because the big change that’s been made is that we moved into Alta Beauty and then they actually doubled our store count and so we’re in over 800 Altas now. Yeah. So that’s, I mean our store count like I think quadrupled in the last year.
NY Launch Pod: So that’s unbelievable. How have you been able to manage those relationships?
Laura Schubert: I think we’re still learning, but again, so that’s a very important relationship for us and we’ve been very impressed with their team so far. Our team, sort of, our counterpart at Alta, they’ve been extremely supportive. They really want us to succeed, which is again something that you worry about as a small brand, as a new brand, you know, , will they swallow you whole basically because they’re so big. But we’ve been very impressed with the level of support we’ve received and we’re just trying to make the best of that opportunity.
NY Launch Pod: What keeps you up at night?
Lillian Tung: For me that’s an easy one. Digital marketing and where we’re spending it, how we’re spending it and how much it’s costing to acquire those new customers we just talked about.
Laura Schubert: And I’d say on my end, well number one, talent management, because again, we love our team and we do have a team of around 10 but increasingly my time is spent thinking about how we can keep those people happy, keep those people motivated, keep those people with us, find the next people who are going to bring our business to the next level. And then I’d say my next concern would be keeping Alta happy and our other retailers and continue to grow those relationships because we are in a different position this year where we have won those retailers, we are in those doors and now we have to continue to knock the socks off our retailers.
NY Launch Pod: Right. So part of the story is managing the growth. How do you see yourself managing this growth? You’ve grown three X in the past year. Maybe next year will be even larger. Certainly hope so, but, but how do you keep the core of what Fur is as you grow?
Laura Schubert: That’s a great question. I think that’s still, again, we’re still so small and so early in our journey that I think that that is still not as difficult to keep together, especially given the team that we have. But I could definitely see that becoming a bigger issue going forward.
NY Launch Pod: And Lillian, from a digital marketing standpoint, I think from Hustle, the TV show they talked about how on Instagram it was hard to market and have that conversation. Is it becoming easier to market pubic hair products as this conversation expands?
Lillian Tung: Absolutely. Yes. And actually that’s a point I haven’t really talked about openly very much. But yes, I mean it’s been night and day and I really do think, again, it’s all those little things I mentioned coming together and Facebook understanding that like if you show someone applying lotion to their leg that is not sexual in nature. If you use the word pubic on an ad that’s not sexual. And so those disapprovals don’t happen anymore. And also I think it’s on our side, our team, our creative team has also learned a little bit of the landmines and how to avoid it. So you don’t have to like waste your time going back and forth.
NY Launch Pod: And so there was resistance. And then how have you found a technique in terms of getting around that resistance that people have? Right. So you have a few years under your belt. People were pubic, you know, that’s sexual, that’s a little too far out there. Have you found different ways of having that conversation to get around that initial resistance?
Laura Schubert: Definitely. There’s a conversation or a pubic. There’s also just a conversation around body care. I think the consumer changes and we definitely have different ways we can talk to the different consumers. So that’s changed. But I also just think people are more comfortable. Yeah. I would say we wouldn’t, we don’t try to change our messaging too much. All the different parts of the messaging appeal to different people. Absolutely. Yeah. But you know, like Laura says, every no that we’ve ever encountered is just a not yet. And that’s also why our position has always been that we’re not a rebel brand. We’re a care brand and we’re trying to create a safe, elevated, comfortable space where people can talk about pubic hair or even just reframe the way they think about it. And so that’s very important to us as a brand.
NY Launch Pod: And where do you see Fur going, because we’re checking in with you after one year, what does the next year look like? And then what about beyond that?
Laura Schubert: We have a few product launches in store for 2020, so at least two. Definitely expanding our product line, although we always intend to be a pretty concentrated brand also because getting back to sort of, we have a mission, we want to stay on mission. We are self funded there are working capital constraints. You can’t launch everything. And so we’re very conscious of that. So, launching two products next year and then continuing with our distribution again, supporting those thousand stores, I think it’s going to be a key consideration for 2020.
NY Launch Pod: Well that is a great note to end things on. Laura Schubert, Lillian Tung. Thank you for stepping back onto the New York Launch Pod. How do people find out more about you and Fur?
Laura Schubert: Follow us on Instagram @Fur_you or just furyou.com
NY Launch Pod: And if you want to learn more about the New York Launch Pod, you can follow us @nylaunchpod or visit us at nylaunchpod.com for transcripts of every episode, including this one. And if you are super fans like Lillian Tung and Laura Schubert, are you still super fans?
Laura Schubert: Yeah, absolutely. You can sign up for an email on our email list if you’re a super fan and please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It is greatly appreciated and does help people discover the show.
SHARE THIS:
