NYLP: Welcome to the New York Launch Pod, the New York Press Club award-winning podcast highlighting the most interesting new startups, businesses and openings in the New York City area. I’m your host and New York attorney Hal Coopersmith and in this episode we speak to Matt Bennett, the founder of Dreams Aren’t This Good, a New York based salsa company. And if you thought there wasn’t any room to disrupt the salsa industry, you’re wrong. in this episode we discuss how Matt has big plans for the salsa industry, how he wants to create a New York based brand and a whole lot more. But before we go to the interview, if you haven’t already, remember to sign up for our monthly newsletter for unique content and insights and subscribe on your favorite podcast listening app. And with that lets go to the interview.
NYLP: So I read this: salsa is a 1.3 billion dollar industry in the United States. Why did the world need another salsa company?
Matt Bennett: I mean, that’s a fact that I came across, right? I didn’t know that and I knew it was a big market but I didn’t know one, how big, because it’s a very niche product, right? So, everybody loves salsa. I’ve had like one person tell me they don’t love salsa. So, to me I started looking at, why do they need another salsa? Right? It’s not about needing another salsa. It’s needing a brand in that space that is about something bigger than salsa, which doesn’t exist. So that’s really the journey that I’ve been on to kind of solve that problem. And then, what’s missing versus just creating another salsa or others? Right? Like creating another seltzer or everybody’s putting in seltzer. So the space that I want to play in is not really being touched. And I think there’s massive opportunity to not focus on the product where.. It’s a good question, right? But I don’t even really think about it.
NYLP: See, you’re a salsa company. You want to be more than salsa? How are you being more than salsa?
Matt: Well, right now it’s definitely about like that’s the core product, right? Like we have to sell salsa or it doesn’t really move forward. But how I think about everything isn’t really, it’s not about the product. I think in general, people don’t buy products, they buy brands. So if there’s an emotional tie or something bigger about the brand, then that’s I think ultimately what people connect with. And what I’ve found is that the people buying salsa are just buying it because it’s there. Nobody has given them a better option. So, that’s what I’m doing. And then additionally, I mean I have a massive vision for what we’re doing but a step at a time and the next step really is kind of bigger than salsa would be chips. So working on producing those and bringing those to market. So you have the one, two combo. Or as I say you have the full experience as a consumer. I want you to have a brand experience, not be buying it based on product. And that’s what happens now. Every time I sell a jar of salsa, I know they’re buying another brand of chips and I’m like, that’s not really the best experience I want to provide. So it’s got to start building and being bigger.
NYLP:: Well, it’s very interesting that you talk about building a brand experience. I think as there’s a proliferation of brands, it’s becoming more and more competitive and building a loyalty. And particularly in the food space. It’s a very competitive space as you’ve realized. What does your brand stand for and how are you building that experience?
Matt: That’s a long answer really, but I try to look at it in a few different ways or pieces. One is just at the very basic level, right? Like what is our brand about? And that could be as simple as just providing a clean product which is kind of standard these days, especially getting into better quality salsas. So that’s kind of at a simple level. To me, it’s just the right thing to do and the right thing to create, but then a better experience. So is that you just enjoy the flavor? Like the freshness. So these are kind of, some of the basic things that I’ve really focused on is I don’t think there’s any, and this is obviously my opinion and take, but I don’t think there’s any super fresh products on the shelf in salsa. Like not one brand that’s shelf stable. There’s fresh products. Right. But that’s different.
NYLP: Like fresh made?
Matt: Yeah, fresh made. Like in the grocery store or there’s some other brands out there that make them and you know, maybe they last three weeks, a month or whatnot, but of shelf stable salsa. When you’re thinking about the brands in the grocery store, I don’t think there’s any fresh tasting. And so that’s been something I’ve been driven by as far as experience. So I want to provide the best, freshest shelf-stable salsa I can. And I believe we’ve accomplished that and I’ve gotten feedback on it and it tastes like it was made hours ago or yesterday even though it’s shelf stable. So that’s a brand experience. So that’s one thing and a couple of things, but just really making it bigger from the point of view of, yes, we sell a product, but when I’m speaking with people, like what is that experience with me and what am I sharing and what am I learning from them to create the connection with the consumer versus just being like, buy my product, buy my product, buy my product. I want you to, but I want to share the story and I want to understand what’s important to you as much as possible. Even in a short glimpse window to be like, oh, now I understand kind of what you’re looking for and that’s how I can fill the experience you’re wanting.
NYLP: Right. And I think you mentioned that salsa, people are buying it because it’s there for the most part, right? Like there’s Tostito’s, which is owned by Frito Lay and Pepsi, which is a major player. You have Chichi’s, you have a lot of other brands that are just kind of there. How did you see that opportunity and be like, all right, people are just buying this because it’s there and I want to do something a little bit different?
Matt: Yeah, it’s a good question and I think people don’t think about it. Right. And I mean, I’ve spent a couple of years now, like two or three years I’ve been wanting to start a salsa company for 20 plus years and I just never did it right. I did some other ventures. I didn’t think I was really ready for it personally. But looking at it and over the last few years I’ve been able to really look at the space. I don’t come from a chef background, I don’t come from a CPG background, but what I have done is really go into stores, hundreds of them or thousands around New York and just look at the shelf. And then additionally, just kind of generally growing up in Texas, like where salsa’s king, it’s everywhere, right? So I also look at the opportunity that’s here in New York, which is a unique city, just how the stores are here and how it operates. But also the rest of the country is more similar in a way where there’s not oversaturation or there’s not people just trying to play in that space. So if I go to Texas, it might be a different ballgame, right? So I’ve looked at it and I literally like sit in the grocery store and stare at the shelf and then I watch people and I just sit there and watch them. And then when they can’t make up their mind, because there’s only like six or eight brands that are like staple, that you know. A majority of them come from Texas and I just sit there and go, okay, if there’s six to eight primary brands that are actually massive brands, right? Multimillion dollar brands, Tostito’s is like the Coke of salsa, right? Like they own everything.
NYLP: Some would call it the Pepsi.
Matt: Yeah, the Pepsi. But they’re at that level. So just kind of looking at those brands, what I did is said what’s missing, right? Like a simple question. So I started looking at everything like a craft beer per se, focusing on flavors, which is our strategy. We don’t focus on heat levels, so there’s no mild, medium, hots. I don’t want to create three versions of the same thing for time and money. I just want to create the experience. So the flavor you get is that, that’s it. It’s been working really well and that’s the strategy on a long-term basis of what we want to do. And nobody’s really doing that. And if they have made flavors, these bigger brands, they’ve been around forever. Like you’ve been around for 50 years and you have eight flavors. Like maybe there’s a reason to that, right? But I think where people are in the world today, whether it’s craft beer or whether it’s cheese puffs or whether it’s snack bars or popcorn or whatever it is, people want flavors and they want something new and they don’t want just hot or mild or fire roasted or whatever. So I really said what’s missing, flavors, two all brands look alike to me, like their packaging. So I said, I’m going to create the total opposite. And I created a black and white jar as you can see here. So creating packaging that feels cooler, that feels more modern, that I think is more connected with consumers today than the old school way. And then additionally, just adding kind of personalities to the brand and to the flavors themself. Which I definitely could get into every detail, but I think just on a bigger level, like when you’re talking about bringing something new to market, I’m going to do the opposite of what everybody’s doing from a brand point of view. And so far it’s been working.
NYLP: You certainly said a lot. And I love the fact that you’re doing the opposite of what people are doing. Because if we looked at this and 20 years ago you said you wanted to start a salsa company, you have no culinary background, you have no CPG background, you’re entering a competitive food space. I’m sure people must have told you, Matt, you are crazy. Why would you ever do this? You know, what’s gonna make your salsa different? And then I want to know in the face of that you’ve had this dream for 20 years. What are the steps that you took to just get this thing off the ground?
Matt: Yeah, I think I mean, 20 years ago I wasn’t ready, right? Like I didn’t have life experiences. I didn’t get beat up, you know, by life or trying to do other ventures. So I just wasn’t personally ready and I don’t think it was the right time. There’s a right time for everything, I think. And I believe the time for this strategy and this type of brand in the space is now. And I’ve been finding that at a small level, but, you know, I mean, I guess I’m crazy. I don’t know. You know, I’ve been told that quite often. So the second part of the question?
NYLP: Well, just what were the steps that you took to get this thing off the ground? So you have this love of salsa and then how do you come up with the recipe and start a salsa company?
Matt: Yeah. So I’ve been making our original flavor since college, so that was like the base one. And then maybe 10 years ago or so, I started making the garlic cilantro and I kind of sat on those and those were my bases. And then over the last three years, once I knew I wanted to do it, which was really the key, like I was like, all right, now I’m gonna do it for real. Then I just started doing research. It took me about a year and a half to kind of piece the basics together. So, whether that’s packaging, whether that’s food laws, whether that’s recipes, and how do you turn that recipe from fresh to shelf stable? Because I’m just making it my kitchen, right? So literally in a blender. So doing that, all the measurements, finding a manufacturer. So, because I don’t come from a chef background, like I don’t want to sit in the kitchen and make salsa. I love making it, but I knew that that’s not where I needed to spend my time. And so I had to figure that out. How do I launch a company when I don’t know anything about salsa? Like I know how to make a fresh batch. That’s it. And I just found those things. I just figured it out and I talked to people. I had some help. I had some things that came up where I met the right person. So my manufacturer came through one of my best friends who had a relationship, not in the space, but just somebody connected. And that’s been quite a challenge, the manufacturing piece, because it’s the most important. So there’s no like magical answer. I just spent two years of my life basically just figuring it out and failing a lot, you know? But just moving forward.
NYLP: And so as you’re failing, you’re getting beaten up. What are you thinking at those moments where you’re like, I just wanted to start this salsa company and, you know, things are just not working out the way that you were hoping.
Matt: I think overall I’m very fortunate. Things have really worked out. And the biggest piece of that I think for me is I’m thankful that the product is selling. It doesn’t sell like water, right? It’s a different product. But it’s selling and launching a new brand, launching something in a very tight space, where nobody’s really kind of paying attention is opportunity that I see. But getting into the space, they’re like, why do I want your product? The demand from the consumer isn’t really there. Right? But everybody’s buying the product. So, I think just really looking at that aspect and I think just part of it is like, I just figure stuff out. I get beat up, but I’ve been through, I mean, I’ve never had anything major happen, right. Thankfully. But I’ve been through it so I mean I could go on and on, but anybody that’s trying to do something and start something, I mean this just didn’t happen. Your podcast didn’t just happen overnight, right? Like it takes work. It takes time. It takes believing in what you’re doing. And I think those are the things along with the people around me are, I’ve pretty much been hit with almost anything. So like, this is what’s happening. I’m doing it. And I still today, coming here, like stuff’s happening, you know? And I’m like, are you kidding me? But I know that that’s part of it. Once I understood that that’s part of it, then it just becomes a bit easier to just move.
NYLP: Well, I also find it interesting what you mentioned is that people aren’t looking for it, but it’s selling, right? Like no one’s saying, man, I wish I had another salsa. Like I’m tired of these choices. But then you see something different in your packaging stands out and people are looking for it. Right. So I find that interesting. But how are you able to gain distribution? How are you able to convince the stores to say, you know what, you should carry this salsa because the other salsas you’re carrying are really tired.
Matt: Yes. So what I’ve found doing the research and I actually when I worked at Hal’s, which we’ll talking about in a second..
NYLP: Hal’s Seltzer not Hal’s..
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Hal’s Seltzer, not Hal’s the host. Not your brand. You know, and they’re based in New York and a great company. And so I was able to kind of get an inside peek doing my rogue research basically. And so knowing that, there’s no magic bullet, right. But I knew that I was providing something different because I know the other brands, I know how it works. So at a very base level, I was today even, I just walked into the store, I know I need to talk to the buyer. And for me it’s, here’s the product. And telling them, you know, whatever I’m telling them and it hasn’t been easy, but it’s kinda been a pretty smooth process. And I think primarily is because one, being a local company obviously helps, but two, nobody else’s hitting them with salsa and nobody’s coming in. So for me, I’m thankful and I kind of keep that hope, you know, that that’s gonna happen still. Eventually other players, I think are going to come along, but I think that’s been a key to the success so far is like, I know that they’re getting hit with every other type of brand and product, but not in salsa. So I just basically go in and sell it to them.
NYLP: What about that first store getting in that first store?
Matt: Yeah, the first store was Mekelburg’s on Kent avenue in Williamsburg. So they took us in and they’re a craft beer, fine boutique, kind of higher end store. So I went in and I mean, I’ve been over there and you know, I kinda somewhat live over there. And once that happened, I wasn’t even gonna go into stores. Like I spent the first two months, so we only launched six and a half, seven months ago to give you like context. Right? And the first two months I just did events. Grass roots, popups, little markets, things like that. And one I didn’t know, I’ve never done this. So like can I even go into stores and with a new brand? I just wanted to build a grassroots per se. And then I went into Mekelburg’s, I was like, screw it. I’m just going to go in and talk to them. They’re like, yeah, we’ll bring you in. I’m like, check. Then I was like, well, I’ll just go to another store. And that’s what I’ve been doing the whole time. It’s just one store after another after another. And of course I haven’t gotten them all, but for the most part I’m able to at least get close. And I’ve just been racking them up and now we’re at almost a hundred stores already. And as long as you walk in and put it out there and that’s all I’ve done. And I know I have 100% confidence that this is the best salsa in the market. So that’s for me all I rely on.
NYLP: Well we are definitely going to try the salsa. But another thing that you mentioned, New York company, New York brand, which I love. How are New Yorkers taking in their salsa right now? Like you talked about that, how they’re looking at the shelves and how you are studying New Yorkers. What are New Yorkers doing with their salsa?
Matt: I mean, I don’t know if they’re doing anything different, but what I do find, especially when demoing, because that’s the best option or sampling, whatever you want to call it. I mean that’s how you can talk to people, right? You go to the grocery store, there’s somebody demoing, you’re like, ah, I don’t know if I’m going to try that or you avoid them or whatever. But I’ve also come to appreciate those people. And by talking with people in demoing what I find is one, they really love the flavor strategy that we have because the number one question is, which is the spiciest or which is the hottest. So I think that’s, for me, that’s been something that is kind of ingrained in people, especially in the Northeast. I believe. So even when making it, like I made it and I was like, this is perfect. And all my friends said, no, this is way too hot. So just getting that feedback. But now what I find is that people, they want something different. They just don’t know about it. That’s why they’re buying what’s on the shelf. And then they’re starting to explore when they see my brand because it does look different. And that’s, you know, that’s kind of what they’re doing different. But I think at the end of the day, nobody’s given them a better option.
NYLP: And how did you come up with the name? Dreams Aren’t This Good.
Matt: So it was going to be my tagline. So previously the company was called Benneteaux’s which is my last name with Eaux on it. As I started getting an overall vision, the tagline was, dreams aren’t this good. And through the process of launching the company and really kind of checking myself of like, what am I doing? What do I want to do with this and why do I want to do it? I wasn’t really focused on the how, which I just don’t really like, that’s how I operate. I knew that I wanted to start a salsa company and I knew why I wanted to do it and I knew what was missing. So I just moved forward and the name became the full name of the company because I also believe that that’s part of the recipe, to being able to build a brand that’s bigger than a product. So, and a good example of that on a base level is even when people see it, I’m not standing there and nothing, just a consumer in the store, they see it. And the name is, Dreams Aren’t This Good. Immediately they’re emotionally connected in some way, either positive, negative, whatever you want to call it. But I know that they’re connected and if they pick it up and start checking it out, et cetera, then I hope they come more into the brand and want to buy it.
NYLP: Well, the name is phenomenal. It certainly creates a connection and it’s great that you mentioned kind of the experience because you mentioned that at the top of the interview. What is the brand experience that you want someone who’s having your product, either current product that you have or a product in the future to experience? What’s that brand experience that you want?
Matt: That’s a really good question. I think in the future, you know, I probably don’t know the answer right now. I know what my vision is and, again, it’s bigger than salsa. So I think that’ll change, right? Depending on what our product is being offered, right? What they’re taking in or experiencing, I should say. So it’s going to be different for everyone. But now I really focus on, I want them to really enjoy what they’re tasting. But the most important for me, I think is I want them to come back for it, right? Like whatever that experience is and maybe it’s not the greatest answer, but it’s why I’ve named the company what it is, is because to me it’s interpretive, right? So when you see Dreams Aren’t This Good, you are going to think something different than me, but I want it to be a streamline experience through the product. And I’m finding that that’s happening, right? So I just want it, whatever that experience is for you, that’s amazing for me. Right? And what I want is you to come back and look for that experience. And buy that experience, which is happening, and I know what the base is, people are buying X brand, but there’s no experience to that. Like they’re just, they’re not coming back to it because they actually want it, which is what’s starting to happen on a small level for me, which builds the overall brand.
NYLP: But you can talk about what you want in the future, but you’re also building an experience in the present. You have the DATG Cartel. Different multicolors, that sort of stuff. Like how does that create that experience and translate it into a food? How did you come up with that brainchild?
Matt: Yeah. So, to piece that together, I think it’s good in the sense I’ve kept everything simple. I try to, right. So whether that’s the ingredients in the jar, and what I tell people is I’ve basically taken the ingredients and the inspiration behind the flavors and I’ve put them into a jar. And how I’ve done that. So outside of our original, every flavor is named after a song. And so for example, there’s Garlic Cilantro but the name of the flavor is actually The Fighter. And The Fighter is a song called Fighter by Gym Class Heroes from New York. Jalapeno Pineapple is Just Dance, Just Dance being Lady Gaga inspired. She’s from New York and as we go along, that’s a thread and an experience and not many people know this yet. New York to me and how I started becoming inspired by the things that are in the jar. To me, New York is about music and it’s about fashion. I think hip hop or I think, you know, fifth Avenue, et cetera, et cetera. So just kind of paying attention. And then I’ve also color coded the flavors based on the ingredients, but I’ve color coded them also based on the subway lines of New York, Just Dance is the NQR. train, et cetera.
NYLP: Why the NQR?
Matt: I don’t know. It’s yellow. Pineapples are yellow. The 456 is Garlic Cilantro it’s green. Cilantro is green. So I’ve really tried to think about everything that’s in the jar. And then additionally, just kind of fully piecing it together is we have a give back piece. So we donate 5 cents per jar sold back to a partner organization per flavor. So if you’re looking at the overall experience, what I find is consumers buy for different reasons. Some people have bought it literally because they like green and there’s no tomatoes on the jar. There’s no jalapenos, nothing. There’s just a clean label. Some people really love pineapple, so they buy it and some people have bought it because of the partner organizations.
NYLP: There are a lot of different components, which I love, particularly the New York aspect and the clean eating aspect. And even though it’s a big industry with dominant players, we’ve seen in the food space, Sir Kensington’s kind of disrupt ketchup and mayonnaise from the larger players. Is that what you’re trying to do as well? And you know, I’m going to ask, why can’t Sir Kensington’s just kinda see what you’re doing with salsa and say, you know what, let’s do this Sir Kensington’s salsa.
Matt: Yeah. They have done and they’ve crushed it, right? So they’re big now and doing very well. And I think, I don’t know if it’s the same goal. I don’t know if it’s the same strategy. Right. But I do, I mean, I definitely want to take away, I guess from these other brands, but more so not really taking away, I want to bring in to this brand, right? So I can’t hit every consumer, just like Sir Kensington’s can’t hit every consumer, like the Heinz consumer might not be a Sir Kensington’s consumer. So I’m pretty aware of that and getting better as we go but I definitely want to kind of take over in that way eventually. And I think Sir Kensington’s, you know, other salsa brands could just create whatever they want, right? But what I’ve learned and what I want to focus on and why I say build a brand like Tostito’s is a brand, right? They’re doing amazing things. But from a consumer point of view and maybe disrupt, maybe that’s a good word. I want to, again, I just want to do the opposite and I want to stay focused on what our strategies are, what’s working. And I was literally like scootering over the Williamsburg Bridge coming here. And I was thinking about the podcast and just, I could tell you pretty much everything that I want to do and these are just things I’ve learned in life where I could tell you exactly what I want to do, right? With my brand. I could give you the recipe per se.
NYLP: That’s why you’re here.
Matt: Right. But the chance of you doing that are so slim. Like I know what this has taken and unless you’re really wanting to do it like another Sir Kensington’s could put out salsa. It’s kind of outside their zone as far as condiments, but they could do it and we’ll see. You know, who knows. But I think I just want to stay focused on the brand we’re building. And if you can build a brand of value and great experience for people, then that’s what people want to be a part of. And as long as we do that, I’m confident, like we’ll end up in the right place.
NYLP: So how many flavors do you have now and you mentioned chips in the future, what else is in the horizon for you?
Matt: We have three flavors now currently in stores, and we’re launching two more soon, which we kind of talked about. That’s the ACE connection. So we have two flavors that should be launching, I’m gonna say within two weeks. I don’t know the exact time, but hopefully the end of next week. But let’s just say two weeks. We have two flavors, so that’ll be five. I have a sixth one already approved and ready to go, but I don’t have a philanthropy partner for it yet, so I’m kind of holding off on it. And then what I really want to do is just focus on these five. I want to do more and we will do more. But I’m learning where I’m like, okay, let’s slow it down a bit and focus on learning and selling the products we have now and build a really strong base off those five. So, chips, to answer the question we are making our own chips. I’m kinda more excited about the chips in a way than the salsa. I think it’s a bigger market so it might be more challenging, but I believe we’re bringing a chip to the market that’s never been bagged before. I’ve never seen it personally. And doing it again our way, it’ll be a very simple bag. There’s no crazy jalapenos on it or what not. So, chips and five flavors, we’ll be good on that for a while, but eventually, I want a Ben and Jerry’s salsa, like literally one day have hundreds of flavors created by people in a community. Right. And totally kind of change the way that this brand especially or the spaces is built. So there’ll be a lot more flavors for sure.
NYLP: Do you want to preview the chips a little bit? What’s going to make them different?
Matt: Yeah, I mean, well you just have to taste them I guess. But, I’ve really been focused on, and this is from my point of view, I have had feedback, but really when I think of an authentic restaurant style chip, like Mexican restaurant style chip, it tastes like it was made in the oven a few days ago or a few hours ago or however they do it. And I want it to be thicker, which these are, I want it to be like a vessel. I don’t want you being concerned about breaking the chip because that happens so often and it’s a frustrating experience. So therefore I want to create a better experience. And just really, I cut them different ways. Like they’re not triangles, so every chip is a triangle. And I’m like, why? That’s not really great, you can’t put it in the jar. And if you do, you’re, you know, you’re deep in the jar and salsa’s all over your hand. Like it’s horrible. So thinking about solving problems while actually also creating a great experience.
NYLP: What else could someone ask for? Delicious salsa, New York brand, philanthropic. Matt Bennett, thank you for stepping onto the New York Launch Pod and sharing your time with us.
Matt: Thank you very much.
NYLP: How do people find out more about you and Dreams Aren’t This Good salsa?
Matt: So, dreamsarentthisgood.com and then on social or Instagram, primarily it’s DATGCartel and just Dreams Aren’t This Good.
NYLP: And if you want to follow the New York launch Pod, you can follow us on social media @nylaunchpod and for transcripts of every episode, including this one, you can visit nylaunchpod.com And if you are a super fan of the show, Matt, are you a super fan of the New York Launch Pod?
Matt: I am, yes.
NYLP: If you’re a super fan like Matt Bennett and you have dreams that aren’t this good, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It is greatly appreciated and does help people discover the show.
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